Response to a Comment about Hare Krishna

I have sort of felt Compelled by one of my Commenters to do this Post, so as not to Appear a Coward if I do not Post and Respond to all that she says.  In what Follows, I've decided to Post and Respond to her Comment, One Paragraph at a Time.

This First Paragraph is in Response to something I had said in relation to someone's Idea that Krishna and Jesus are the same Person:

Paragraph #1
Satyavati Said - "oh no... Krishna and Jesus are NOT the same person.  Srila Prabhupada said: 'Jesus is our Guru.' ...did you not get the comment I tried to post several days ago when you were talking about how reincarnation is meaningless?  (It isn't.)  Krishna, if you'd like to put this into Christian terms, is the Father.  Jesus is His son.  No conflict there."

Response:  No, I did not get the Comment you Posted a Few Days ago about Reincarnation.  If Jesus is Teaching something different than Lord Krishna, there is a Conflict.

Paragraph #2
Satyavati Said - "Jesus also said, as I mentioned in my comment (the one that I guess you didn't get), that He had not told His disciples everything, because they weren't ready for it.  Paul essentially said the same thing when he said he was giving the Christians milk and not meat because they weren't ready for it.  So right there you've got essentially a double-dilution of teachings.  Jesus Himself said there was more that He wasn't telling."

Response: We can Debate about what Jesus meant when He said that He was not telling them everything, yet what Christians believe is that these things were Revealed later to the Disciples after Christ's Resurrection and then Written about by them in the the rest of the New Testament, including the Letters Written by Paul.  Here is the Verse you are Speaking of...

"12) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.  13) Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will show you things to come."  (John 16:12-13, KJV)

The Context of the John Scripture is the Guidance and Revelation of the Holy Spirit, which was Received by the Apostles at Pentecost, which Occurred shortly after Christ's Resurrection and Ascension into Heaven, yet there were no such Revelations about Reincarnation and the Like given later to the Apostles.  What was Revealed to them instead was the Meaning of Christ's Death and Resurrection, which the Disciples did not fully understand Prior to the Occurrence of these two events.  There were also things revealed to them about the Christian Life and about Christ's Return.

The other Scripture that you are Referring to is in 1 Corinthians and Refers Specifically to the Corinthians, which was a rather immature Church that Paul was having Trouble with.  In fact, this was the Church that was involved in all that Disunity and Quarrels, which is even evidenced within the Context of the Milk and Meat Passage that you were referring to.  In 1 Corinthians 3:1, Paul does not even Address the Corinthians as Spiritual, but as Carnal "Babes in Christ".  The NASB and the NIV versions of the Bible translates this as "Infants in  Christ" and "Mere Infants".

"1) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.  2) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye' were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye' able.  3) For ye' are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye' not carnal, and walk as men?  4) For while one saith, 'I am of Paul'; and another, 'I am of Apollos'; are ye' not carnal?  5) Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye' believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?  6) I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.  7) So then, neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase."  (1 Corinthians 3:1-7, KJV)

You are Taking Verses Out of Context, Satyavati, in order to make your Points.

Paragraph #3
 Satyavati Said - "Now, as far as 'your scriptures and mine would be the same'.... the Vedas are the oldest scriptures on earth.  Everything else comes after them; so you can take that for what it is.  And as far as God being consistent... you don't need to be a Biblical scholar to see the glaring and overwhelming difference between the God of the OT and Jesus in the NT.  I don't know if 'consistency' is a good word in this case."

Response: The Reason why there appears to be inconsistencies between the God of the Old Testament and Jesus is because they represent an Old & a New Covenant.  In fact, that is what the Word Testament means; Covenant.  In the Old Testament, they were Under the Law, but in the New Testament, we are Under Grace.

When I made the Statement about our Scriptures being the same, I was not actually making a Validity of Scripture argument.  I'll get to that later.  Instead I was making an argument against your God and the God of Christianity being the same Person.  Without Pointing out too large a number of Contrasts, I'll just start with one.  If I understand it right, Hare Krishna is a Vegetarian and does not approve of Animal Sacrifices.  Ok, just based on that One alone, how can the Yahweh/Jehovah of the Old Testament, that instructed the Jews to Sacrifice Bulls, Lambs and Goats, Possibly be Lord Krishna?  Yet the God that Jesus continually spoke of was none other than the God of Abraham.  That is the God of the Old Testament.

"31) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?  God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."  (Matthew 22:31-32, KJV)

Paragraph #4 
Satyavati Said - "Now, as far as this goes: 'If your Scriptures say one thing and mine another, then one of them is Inaccurate. There can not be two Truths. What is True is True and what is False is False.' ...haven't we just finished a discussion on how two things can be perceived differently and yet both be true? Or was I asleep during that whole conversation? Either way, if we want to get into denying one in favor of the other (which I am not personally advocating), it still comes back to the Vedas are oldest, and everything else came as an afterthought."

Response: In the Discussion that you are Referring to, we were talking about the Reality of both Relative Truth and Absolute Truth, not just the Reality of Relative Truth. Apparently you were only asleep during the half of the conversation that you were not in agreement with. :) You are making it sound as if Scripture is about Perception and Relative Truth and not about Absolute Truth and this is something that I can not Agree with.

As to the Validity of the Scriptures Issue, Accuracy can not be established simply based on something Age and nothing else. If it could, then it would be well established that the World is Flat and that the Earth is the Center of the Galaxy, rather than the Sun, and any Further Knowledge that we have Accumulated on the Subject would be disregarded as an "After Thought".

Paragraph #5
Satyavati Said - "Did you know that in the Vedas, at the end of Kaliyuga, the fourth age (the one we are now living in, which will go on for another 427,000 years), it states that Lord Kalki will come, on a white horse and with a sword, to devastate everything? Does that sound the least bit familiar to you? And yet there it is, in the Vedas, thousands of years prior to any Hebrew, Jewish, Christian scripture. I'm not knocking the Bible. We respect all scripture; the Bible, the Quran, and so on. I'm just pointing out, there it is."

Response: To Compare these two Scriptures in more Detail, would require more Study, yet even if they did sort of Match, that doesn't Matter because there are other forces out there besides God that may be privy to Future Events. At first Glance, though, it would seem that since there are 4 Horsemen Listed in Revelation, not only one, that in order for all four to do their Part, the First one is not going to be able to Devastate and Destroy everything.

As to the Koran, there is a Conflict here because the Koran says "Allah Forbid that He Bore a Son." Well, the Bible says that Jesus is God's "Only Begotten Son". Both of these Statements can not be True. One of them is False. You can respect all of the Scriptures if you want to, Satyavati, but my Point is that since they do not agree with each other, they can not all be true.

Paragraph #6
Satyavati Said - "Also, your comment that Jesus said 'no one comes to the Father except through Him'; we understand Jesus to be Guru (which means teacher, which is the same as Rabbi, which is what the disciples called Him), and true enough, no one comes to Krishna except through Guru.  So I don't see a problem there."

Response: Well, Ok. Though I don't agree with the Argument, at least you do have one besides just that Jesus is a Liar. There is one other Statement that He made, though, that goes against the "All Paths Lead to God" Idea and that is... 

"13) Enter ye' in at the strait gate, for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat, 14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."  (Matthew 7:13-14, KJV)

The Biggest Problem, though, is simply that since the various different Scriptures do not agree with each other, they can not all be True.

Paragraph #7
Satyavati Said - "We are not sectarian.  We don't tell people to stop being Christian, or Muslim, or whatever they are.  There is no difficulty.  You can very happily be Christian and chant Hare Krishna.  Is it a problem?  Does it impose?  It's a very simple thing.  No one has to 'stop' being whatever it is they are...why should they?  The goal of all religions is the same."

Response: "Why Should They?"  Well, now let's see.  Since the Scriptures do not match each other and therefore, can not all be true, those who are True Seekers of the Truth are going to have to Leave or "Stop" that which is not True.  Is it really such a great Value to Prevent the Truth from "Imposing" on our Lives?

The Goal of all Religions, Satyavati, is NOT the same.  The Goal of Christianity is Heaven.  The Goal of Buddhism is Nirvana, which in it's Original Form involved a Reuniting with the Cosmos and achieving a State of Nothingness.

Paragraph #8
Satyavati Said - "I'm not about this 'it must be yours or mine and thus one must be real and one must be false' mentality.  I don't see any problem whatsoever.  It's not a 'religious' thing.  Krishna says to Arjuna in Bhagavad Gita, 'Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me.'  'Religion' is an external concept.  Just surrender, that's all.  Is it difficult?"

Response: The Only Way to Escape the "This is True and This is not" Mentality is to not Believe in the Existence of any Absolutes. If we were to walk up to a field of Grass and one Person says that the Grass is Green and the other says that it is Hot Pink, sure Both People have the Right to their Opinion, but only one of these Opinions is a Reflection of what is True.

Christians will also tell you that their Faith is really more of a Relationship than a Religion and those who are the most Connected to the Relationship, rather than to the Religion, or any of the Rituals, are the ones who are the True Believers. This does not change, however, the fact that there is such a thing as Absolute Truth and therefore, when Various Religious Texts do not Agree with each other, they can not all be True.

I guess what it comes down to is what is it that we should Value more.  Unity or Truth.  Yes, Truth can be Sacrificed for the Sake of Unity, yet what Good is Unity if the Final Destination ends up being something other than Heaven?  I will Give you One Last Verse and then I'll Close and this may seem like a rather difficult one to Ponder, but here it is... Jesus said...

"34) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth.  I came not to send peace, but a sword.  35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.  36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.  37) He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me, and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.  38) And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after Me, is not worthy of Me."  (Matthew 10:34, KJV)

As odd as it may seem to some of my Readers, Peace and Unity with all of the Various Religions of the World was not Christ's Goal.  That is not what He was about.  He Believed in Truth and felt that it was of even Higher Value than Peace.  In fact, He Believed in Truth so Strongly, that He Stirred up enough Conflict (No, not Peace, but Conflict) to cause Himself to be Crucified and in doing so brought Salvation to the World.

When to Think & Reason & When to Seek God's Voice

I Guess I have been Picking up the Pace of my Blog and maybe I should and maybe I shouldn't.  It's just that the Blogging World in General seems to have slowed down so much, that I actually have extra Computer Time that I don't know what to do with.

Lord Please Guide and Direct my Blog and Please Guide and Direct what I Read.

Maybe I'll just make this Post a Short One.  Pentecostals and Charismatics are even more into Following the Inter Voice of God's Spirit on a Moment by Moment Basis than the rest of the Church.  I have this One Girl Friend that even so much as Asked God to help us in our Decision of whose house to meet at in order to rehearse our Music for the leading of the worship at an Aglow Meeting.  This is a meeting of Intercessors that Occurs once a Month and I was asked to Lead the Worship.  God was Slow in Answering it, yet right at the Last Minute, I said, "Oh Come on up.  We'll do it here at my house."

Then when she arrived, she asked me where I wanted her to sit and I said "I don't care.  We can either pull some chairs together over here, or we can both sit over there on the Couch."  When she realized my Indecision, she immediately Prayed and Asked God where He would like us to sit.  I just sort of Chuckled as I was Wondering if this person actually asks the Lord each morning what Cloths she should put on.

Should we actually Ask the Lord to Help us with every single decision in our lives, no matter how Small?  She has challenged me, though, for the whole idea sort of Makes me Pause and I do Wonder if I should be seeking the Lord's Direction even more often then I do, so I asked God if I should actually do this Post and what He said was "You may if you wish, but Keep this one Short."  So here it is.  Now give me your thoughts on the Matter.

Easter 2, Jesus Knew in Advance, He would Suffer.

I don't Know why I'm up at this Hour.  I just don't feel all that Tired somehow.  The Blogs have all been Pretty Quiet, including this one.  Do you know that out of the 20 Blogs that I used to Follow, just before I stopped Blogging for awhile between March 5 of last Year and February 18 of this one, there are Only 7 of the 20 that are Still Active.

I was Reluctant at First to Venture Out much in Commenting on the Blogs because I've found some of the Arguing that Takes Place on the Blogs to be quite Tiring.  Even on my Own Blog, it can be Tiring being continuously Challenged to Defend every singly thing that I say.  I Lament about it, yet you know what?  Feeling a little Tired at times is nothing compared to what Christ Suffered.

I'm still thinking about Easter, since that is what my Last Post was about and somehow Easter is still on my Mind.  Christ Suffered quite a lot for our sakes and I really wonder at times how People can miss realizing that.  As I am now Thinking about the Gospels and what can be said from Jesus' own Words that Explains what He did, Right now the Scriptures that come to Mind are...

"19)  Jesus answered and said unto them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.'  20) Then said the Jews, 'Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?'  21) But He spake of the temple of His body.  22) When therefore He was risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."  (John 2:19-22, KJV)

"39) But He answered and said unto them, 'An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas.  40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.'"  (Matthew 12:39-40, KJV) 

"Little children, yet a little while I am with you.  Ye' shall seek Me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come."  (John 13:33, KJV)

And...

"Simon Peter said unto Him, 'Lord, whither goest thou?'  Jesus answered him, 'Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.'"  (John 13:36, KJV)

In all of these Verses, Christ is Talking about His Death and Resurrection.  He Knew what was going to happen before it actually took Place.  He even knew how Peter was going to Respond. 

"Jesus answered him, 'Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake?  Verily, verily, I say unto thee, 'The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.'"  (John 13:38, KJV)

And here is Evidence that He did it Willingly.

"Saying, 'Father, if Thou be willing, remove this cup from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Thine, be done.'"  (Luke 42:22, KJV)

And you know what?  This is another Evidence of His Suffering that is not Mentioned quite as Often as the Crucifixion on the Cross...

"43  And there appeared an angel unto Him from heaven, strengthening Him.  44) And being in an agony He prayed more earnestly; and His sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.  45) And when He rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping."  (Luke 22:43-45, KJV)

Wow!!  I don't Know why this Message came to me after Easter, but here it is.