Monday, May 4, 2009

Reaching the Uneducated/Uninformed Electorate/Voters

Just as I said in my Last Post, "Extremism vs.Moderation, An Introduction", there were two Subjects suggested in the Comment Section of the Post before that; "Reaching the Uneducated" and "Excessive Gridlock verses Rushed Compromise". My Last Post is similar to the Gridlock verses Compromise Subject, yet there is still more for me to write relating to that one. In this Post, we will be discussing Reaching the Uneducated and Uninformed. I added the word "Uninformed" because sometimes even the "Educated" are not as Informed as they should be.

Aside from the thoughts that were expressed on this subject in the Comment Thread of the "Just How Small Should a Government Be?" Post, I was also thinking of some of the initial limits that I noticed in my own Education, most of which I've corrected. I was Educated in Southern California during a time in which this State was lagging behind other States in the quality of their Education.

First of all, I graduated from High School with a valid Diploma without even being required to take a Government Class. I wasn't required to take an Economy Class either. Economics was a Subject primarily taken by those interested in Business, yet when you think about it, how can anyone Vote Intelligently without understanding the Basics about Economy?

If only those who run Businesses understand much, if anything, about the Economy, no wonder People Vote the way they do. Even though I was raised by Republicans, I was a Democrat until I later took an Economy Class at a Junior College and realized that up until that point, I had not really understood the Republican Point of View. Remember, though, I was never required to take this class. I only did it because I realized that it really was something that all American Voters should Understand.

In Relation to the Government Class, believe it or not, I could have skipped this in College as well, for just as in High School, we were offered a choice between History and Government, yet I realized the importance of understanding Government and decided that I better take this Class, yet the point I'm trying to make here is how many others may not have made this Choice, because as Unbelievable as this sounds, it was not required. This reality brings a very important question to my mind. Just how many people are there out there who have Graduated from High School and possibly even College and have never taken a Government Class? And then there are those who don't follow the News and/or don't Understand a lot of what they see and hear when they do.

Can you believe it?! And yet many of those who Live and Breath Politics assume that everyone who's listening to them talk Understands what they are saying. How often do we talk over a lot of people's heads without even realizing it?

So far, I have only talked about those who actually are "Educated" and yet in a lot of ways, not "Educated", but what about those who are not "Educated" at all? What about High School and College Drop outs, or those who finished High School, but never went to College, or what about Illegal Immigrants who were granted Amnesty and yet were never required to learn much about our Culture and/or don't even speak English? If this wasn't so, than why are ballots printed in Spanish?

Aside from the fact that we really do need to try and explain things simply whenever possible, I have even thought of a rather Radical Idea that could possibly get me into trouble, but I'm going to say it anyway.

Most everyone has a Drivers Licence, yet this is viewed as a Privilege, rather than a Right. In order to get a Drivers Licence and earn this Privilege, people have to take a Test. Even though this is a Privilege and not a Right, the Test is simple enough that most everyone can pass it.

There have been times in which I wish that Voting could also be the same way.

One of the reasons why Driving is a Privilege and not a Right is because it can be Dangerous if the Driver does not know what he or she is doing, yet isn't Voting and making Political Decisions without knowing what one is doing Dangerous as well?

Yeh, I know. What I'm suggesting will never happen, but you can't blame a girl for trying. Forgive me, but what I just said makes a lot of really good sense to me.

Anyway, since so much of the Electorate is not quite as "Educated" as they should be, we do need to remember to take the time to talk in simple terms whenever possible.

24 comments:

Name: Soapboxgod said...

This is precisely why the "get out and vote" crusade has been such a total and complete disaster! Simply going to the polls and voting, while indeed your civic duty, has deletarious consequences to you and to those around you if you have not concept of what it is that you are voting for.

Lista said...

This is a very good word, Soap, and you are absolutely right. This is also why I sometimes choose not to cast a vote on certain issues that I don't understand as well as others. Sometimes one's "Civic Duty" is more to Study the Issues, than it is just to Drive to the Polls or Make an Appearance.

I've often felt like there should be more Push to Get People to Study and perhaps even offer resources to help people study, than just a Push to "Get Out and Vote". What about a Political Library, in which a person can get Literature and Videos relating to any Issue or anything Political that has ever been Broadcasted on TV, or a training center helping people who are not that good with Computers find the information that they are looking for on the Internet?

Name: Soapboxgod said...

"What about a Political Library, in which a person can get Literature and Videos relating to any Issue or anything Political that has ever been Broadcasted on TV, or a training center helping people who are not that good with Computers find the information that they are looking for on the Internet?"All of this is readily available at present. There merely needs to be a desire on the part of an individual in attaining such knowledge.

BB-Idaho said...

"Just how many people are there out there who have Graduated from High School and possibly even College and have never taken a Government Class?" Hard to say, times change. In HS, we spent a semester on the US Constitution,
copied it verbatim, and discussed the various Supreme Court cases through history. In college, I took both US political science and international political science.
Shall I accept that because I hold liberal views I am 'uneducated' or
'indoctrinated' by a poor ed system? Or that my kids were
'indoctrinated' by a conspiratorial left wing ed system? My friends on the right toss this type of stuff about as if it were fact. I assure you..it is not.

Lista said...

I have never felt as if you talk like a Liberal, BB. Especially when it comes to Finances and Taxes. I'm not sure why you keep qualifying yourself as one except maybe because of the way you feel about the Social Issues, but those Issues don't have a whole lot to do with Economics.

The Current Education System appears to have a rather strong Liberal Bias, BB, but I don't know what relevance that would have to what it was like when you went to School. You also can't judge "Current Education" by your experience way back when.

Lista said...

Also, remember that you live in a Red State. I'm sure that the Bias of California Education System is far worse than it is in your State.

BB-Idaho said...

guess I lost my post..?

Lista said...

BB,
Oh shoot! Please do try again.

The Griper said...

i might add lista, that taking a "moderate" viewpoint is not the same as taking a "compromised" viewpoint.

extremists are just as opposed to a moderate viewpoint as they are to the other extremist viewpoint.

The Griper said...

driving a car or any vehicle on the streets is a privilege because we need the state's permission to drive it there.

driving a car or any vehicle on our own private property is right because we need no one's permission to do so.

permission or the need of it is the determinant of a right or privilege.

Lista said...

I guess I should do another Post soon, yet just as is so often true, I'm quite involved in other conversations on the web. Probably the most interesting one right now is the conversation that I am currently having with Soap on one of Z-man's Posts; "A Question for Soapie"

Let's see. Try typing the words "Laissez-Faire" or "Capitalism" in the Find on the Page Box of your Browser. There are currently 71 Comments below this Post, but this should take you down to about Comment #57, written by BB-Idaho.

BB-Idaho said...

My 'lost post' was about voting; what the constitution states, with
detailed references, etc. The new, and a bit discouraging reposte seems to be 'read the constitution'
in addition to 'you disagree, ergo
you are stupid. But, back to rationality, the problem seems not
'reading the constitution' but rather what does it mean? A brief
summaryoutlines such interpetations, and we may quickly identify our internet friends by category. The
frustrating thing is that these are
ALL legitimate and at various historical times have come to play.
IMO, the document is a political
framework, the power and greatness of which is the balance between the three branches, the states and the citizens..a power which enables
self-correcting by amendment, by
voting and by SCOTUS interpetation.
Recall how almost immediately when the country started, the Alien & Sedition Laws were passed; any criticism of gov't resulted in jail. The voters removed the Federalists from office and they soon ceased to be a party. Whether we like or accept it, change is inevitable and natural. The writers of the constitution prepared a document that recognized that, quite remarkable, considering the times. Were it as detailed and rigid as some consitutions in other countries some of us would be happy and grateful; some would be
constrained and apalled. Politics and argument on not high on my
interest list, so that's the best I can do. :)

Lista said...

Thanks BB,
For commenting to this Post. It gets me away from the discussion that is still occurring on the Post that I just gave a link to. It has become quite frustrating and relates very well to your statement "You disagree, ergo you are stupid.", for it really feels as if SoapboxGOD is trying to make me feel inconsistent and stupid because he disagrees with me.

Go ahead. Go check it out and see if you agree with his accusations against me. If I was really feeling guilty of these things, though, I wouldn't so boldly invite the world over there to judge for themselves now would I.

And thanks again, BB. You are the one who has been the most helpful to me and helping me read and learn things. Yes, you may have said the same as a lot of others have in the phrase "Read the Constitution", however, you also left me a link that will help me to understand it faster. In responding to this, I am realizing that you have done this for me often and you have no idea how much I appreciate it.

Too often people just say "Read this" and "Read that" and quite often what they want me to read is a really long book and than they say stuff like "Well, a person has to have the desire to learn." In a way, this is exactly the problem that has at least in part inspired this Post. Too often people are more busy judging the "Uneducated" and "Uninformed" than they are in going to the trouble to try and help them.

I guess it could be said that if a person "does not have the desire to learn", this is not my problem, yet actually it is because having an Unhelpful Attitude in relation to Information can have Political Consequences.

After I wrote what you just read in this comment,I wrote another 7 paragraphs elaborating on it in relation to some Basic Principles of Economics, which I've decided to put off Posting for now because I'm a little low on time and may want to edit it anyway.

As to the Constitution, what those who support it so strongly often forget is that it is supposed to be "self-correcting by amendment", which means that it is not quite as "Set in Stone" as they suppose.

Name: Soapboxgod said...

"Too often people are more busy judging the "Uneducated" and "Uninformed" than they are in going to the trouble to try and help them.""Too often people just say "Read this" and "Read that.."

If someone recommends that you "read this" or "read that" have they not in essence "tried to help you out"??

My intention Lista is not to make you feel anyway. Regardless, when someone contradicts themselves or exhibits inconsistency in their thinking and subsequent posting, and I merely point this out (as I've just again done herein with this present post), then it is not I who ought to bear criticism. Rather it is one of the two separate premises which are being invoked.

Lista said...

Soapbox,
"If someone recommends that you 'read this' or 'read that' have they not in essence 'tried to help you out'??"

Ok Soap, maybe so, but what BB did was even more helpful.

A lot of the Contradictions that you have pointed out to me, especially in the Comment Section below Z's Post, "A Question for Soapie" are actually misunderstandings on your part, rather than Contradictions.

Lista said...

You are an extremely fast reader, Soap. I can tell that just by looking at your visits to my blog, in some of which you appear to have both read and commented in a matter of seconds. There is no way you can even begin to relate to how much time and effort is required in order for me to read a single book. Try reading everything out loud for awhile and you might get some idea.

Name: Soapboxgod said...

Were I to recommend Atlas Shrugged to you indeed you'd have a good argument.

The book I did recommend to you What it means to be a Libertarian can likely be digested over a couple of weeks.

With regards to misunderstandings, not always but certainly in most cases misunderstandings are the not the result of interpretation but the result of the directive.

BB-Idaho said...

I dropped a comment over at Z's..
another of those century marks? Speaking of reading, well-read etc,
it is considered as cheating, ill-mannered and pagan...but google and wikipedia can condense and distill the ideas it takes years to seriously study and evaluate.
Among the references are real gems and if you are like me and want to see all sides, top & bottom, it really is a way for 'slow readers' to go. Personally, my tastes are
archeology, paleontology, early civilizations/biochemistry, immunology etc, etc, so I hardly
take up the 'you should read such and such'..a single volume out of my field and out of my interest..
and I have learned to not recommend
books that interest me to others. :)

Lista said...

Soapbox,
Perhaps I would prefer to read something lighter over the next couple of weeks. Would that really be such a horrible decision.

Misunderstandings are just about always the result of BOTH Interpretation and Directive. Haven't you ever heard that it takes two to tangle, but you know what? If you prefer to believe that it's all my fault, go right ahead. It won't be the first time that that's happened.

BB,
"Cheating, Ill-mannered and Pagan"? Yeh! And probably "Politically Incorrect" as well. That's right down my alley! I'll be right over. lol. :)

BB-Idaho said...

Your observation about direction on a 'political compass' reminds me of the vector concept; one that Z himself uses to describe the course of a human life when discussing abortion. It seems to me that as a society, particularly one which governs itself, often is nudged 'north' [so to speak] by the hammers of east and west on the anvil of progression.

BB-Idaho said...

Was sort of pondering Soap's viewpoint on banning smoking and offer a pair of King James I statements:
"Smoking is a custom loathsome to the eye, hateful to the nose, harmful to the brain, dangerous to the lungs, and in the black, stinking fume thereof nearest resembling the horrible Stygian smoke of the pit that is bottomless."
then, bored with
skewering us sinning smokers, he
got off on another project,

"Right trusty and well beloved, we greet you well. Whereas we have appointed certain learned men, to the number of 4 and 50, for the translating of the Bible, and in this number, divers of them have either no ecclesiastical preferment at all, or else so very small, as the same is far unmeet for men of their deserts and yet we in ourself in any convenient time cannot well remedy it, therefor we do hereby require you, that presently you write in our name as well to the Archbishop of York, as to the rest of the bishops of the province of Cant.[erbury] signifying unto them, that we do well, and straitly charge everyone of them ... that (all excuses set apart) when we prebend or parsonage.."
..he got the folks started on the King James Version. Isn't history neat? :)

Lista said...

BB,
I guess both of your comments relate to the conversation that has been going on at Z's Blog, "A Question for Soapie" (Link given 7 Comments up). I'd give the Link again, but I'm sort of short on time.

I'll respond to these Comments later, but meanwhile I just want to say that we may be moving away from the Subject of this Post. What I should do is read though the Comments below "A Question for Soapie" Post and Post some of it on a new Post here on this Blog. That is as soon as I can find the time. Famous Last Words, huh? Oh well.

BB-Idaho said...

OK, back on topic..'reaching the uneducated and uninformed electorate' who says they are uneducated/uninformed? why would they say that? ..because they disagree with the majority. I know, I felt the same way when they elected Bush/Cheney..and then did it again. Like Soap, Beth, yourself, I fall into the convenient trap..those who disagree are stupid. Gee, I try so very hard not to do that, but..
..and of course our constitution and laws preclude any sort of test to vote, other than being a citizen and non felon. What would such a test look like? What if Beth wrote it? What if Lista wrote it? What if BB wrote it?
OK, I'll write it..derive the Shroedinger Wave Equation using partial differential equations..now vote. Silly me, a bit testy today!

Lista said...

I was basing my Conclusions about the Uneducated and Uninformed at least in part on what Classes I was Required and not Required to take when I went to School. I also know that there are, in fact, Uneducated and Uninformed people who go to the polls.

Ideally this test, that's never going to happen anyway, but if it did, it would need to be written by people from both Parties to avoid the Bias that might occur if it was written by only one of the Parties.

Hello, Testy, how are you today? I'm Tired. At least that's my name for now. :):)

I can only Post to my Blog when there isn't some other conversation going on that is making me feel Tired. I don't Post when I'm Angry, Stressed or Tired. I don't even Post when I feel really Busy. I have to be in a Reflective sort of mood and that doesn't happen unless I've had some time to Relax and right now I'm the one who is changing the subject, but I'm too Tired to Care, so I guess I'll just let myself get away with it. lol. :):)