This came from the Blog of someone Known as Soapbox or the Soapster. In my Initial Comments on his Post, it is apparent that I was not real Trusting at First, due to the Fact that so many of the Ideas and Rules are Subjective and thus, without a Referee, these Rules may not Work too Well. For Example, rather someone's Argument is shown to be Faulty is Often a Subjective Call, as well as Judgments about rather or not our Opponent is being Rational and Following Reason. Whether or not One Position is more Realistic then another, or the Evidence Offered is Adequate are also Subjective Judgments, as well as the Judgment about whether or not an Argument has been Resolved or not, so that the Discussion can move on to the Next Point, or even whether or not a Certain Fact Presented is Accurate or Inaccurate.
This is why I Kept saying, in the Comment Section of Soapster's Post, "According to Whom?" Because of the Subjective Nature of these Rules, without a Referee, if a Person Desires to be in Control of a Discussion, he could Use the Subjective Nature of these Rules to his Advantage.
Considering this, I decided that these Rules Really are Good, if Used in a Fair Manner, for I Find that when there are no Rules, the Discussion will Generally Degrade into Chaos, yet I also Decided to Add Two more Rules of my Own to the 4 that are Listed on the Flow Chart and here they are below.
5.) Do not Accuse Based on your Own Subjective Opinion about your Opponent's Ability to Reason.
And
6.) These Rules do Need to Apply to all Parties and not just to your Opponent.
Let me Know your Thoughts.
Also, I don't Know why this Post is Insisting on being the Last one on a Page. Please do, though, Click on "Older Posts", for more Posts and Of Course, do Read the Comments, for I have Placed more of my thoughts in the Comments Section.
5 comments:
While I'm Rambling about Debating and well, sort of a Blogging Subject, I might as well Ramble about another Frustration. You see, One Particular Quote from the Chart Sort of Reminds me of how Fruitless Debate Often Seems...
"Sometimes, People Confuse 'Discussion' with 'Sermon' or 'Lecture'." These Non-Discussions are a Waste of Time since all Parties are Intractable in their Existing Views."
When I Think of this, it is Discouraging. Especially in Light of what One Person Said to me Lately, in Relation to the Above Post, that the Phrase, "Can you envision anything that will change your mind on this subject?" could Eliminate about 99.5% of the People that we Interact with on the Web.
If this is True, then Debating can Seem like a Pretty Big Waist of Time. I have Learned Things by Listening to Others Debate, though.
Some Debates are more Informative then Others. When People just Preach, though, and are not Interested in Discussing, Debating, or Hearing the Other Point of View, I do not Find that to be as Informative and Statements such as "This is the Way it is. PERIOD." are Really not that Informative Either.
Somehow, just Saying Stuff for the Sake of Venting, or because well, "It just has to Come Out." seems rather Fruitless to me. I Guess it's Ok to do that Among Close Friends, but I'm not much into that on the Web.
The Use of the Word "Intractable" from the First of the Quotes in this Comment is Interesting because, Aside from Stubborn, Hard to Work with and Hard to Influence or Control, it also means, "Hard to Treat, as in Pain"
This isn't really that Out of Line either, because sometimes Stubbornness is the Result of Past Hurts and the Avoidance of any Additional Pain. People Often do not Realize to what Extent their Present Stubbornness and Unwillingness to Consider other Points of View besides their Own, or to Compromise in any way, is Due to Past Hurt, Resulting in Fear.
Fear can indeed be "Intractable" and can Appear to be Immutable.
This is True of Many People, not just those who may Feel Like I'm Talking about them because they Recognize that they have just been Quoted. I'm not Really Addressing anyone Specifically, though, I'm just Using the Quotes as Examples.
There is some good stuff in the rules, but the statement at the end that says anyone who broke any of the rules has conceded all the arguments of the opponent and has no right to complain--that made me laugh. Wishful thinking on the part of the rule-maker!
Yes, it's rather Idealistic and Unrealistic, isn't it?
If you follow that 'debate' flowchart, you really need to use a flowchart which will permit you to always win ...:)
From just Glancing at your Linked Flow Chart, you have Once Again, Made me Smile. I Look Forward to Looking at it in more Depth Later.
Actually, though, the Above Flow Chart can be Used to Ones Advantage as well. All you have to do is Take Advantage of the Subjective that is Present there and Accuse the Person of Breaking the Rules. For Example, Accuse your Opponent of having a Faulty and Unrealistic Argument, Lacking the Ability to Reason and/or Presenting Evidence that is not Adequate. Rather this is True or not Apart form your Own Subjective Opinion is not Important.
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