This Post, as well as the Next One, will be Written in Response to a Comment that was Submitted in the Comment Thread of the Next Post Down and here are the First Few Lines of that Comment...
Satyavati devi dasi said...
"That would imply that the process is such:
"1. Admit or confess
"2. Get cleansed from sin (karma is a different thing and for me it is more accurate to use the original words)
"3. Everything's hunky dory.
"Now, this would imply that you can go on and do whatever you like now and it'll all be just washed under the bridge, no problem."
(The Rest of this Comment will be Addressed in my Next Post, for this will be a Two Part Response.)
July 21, 2011 3:28 PM
For now, my Goal is to Respond to Satyavati's Statement, "Now, this would imply that you can go on and do whatever you like now and it'll all be just washed under the bridge, no problem."
What she is Saying is Implying the Absence of Effort, yet the Bible Actually has Two Key Words that are Used in Relation to Salvation. One is "Confess", which is from the Greek Word "Homologeo", which not Only Means "Confess, Acknowledge and Profess", but also "Covenant and Promise".
In Part, this is just a Covenant Sealed in Christ's Blood, that if we Believe in Him, He will Forgive us of Our Sins, yet there are Other Words that Imply Man's Side of the Covenant.
The Word, "Repent", for Example, in the Greek ("Metanoeo"), is a Military Term that Means "About Face", or "a 180 Degree Turn in the Opposite Direction". "Repent" also Means to Think Differently, Reconsider or "Change Ones Mind" and in the Context of Salvation, this Means to Change One's Mind about Our Sin and Agree with God that this Behavior is Wrong.
Satyavati Requested Original Language, so here it is. Besides, my Entire Audience is Intelligent, so why not do this in a more In Depth and Intelligent Manner?
Another Word that Needs to be Defined is the Word "Believe". In the Famous John 3:16, the Word, "Believe" is from the Greek Word, "Pisteuo", which Means not Only Believe, but also "to have Faith in, Entrust or put in Trust with (espec. one's Spiritual Well-Being to Christ)".
The Truth of the Matter is that a lot of these Words have been Watered Down.
And then there is another Famous Passage in Ephesians...
"8) For by grace you have been saved THROUGH FAITH, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God--, 9) not the result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9, NRSV)
So Often the Focus is on the Words "Grace" and "Gift", rather then on "Faith".
"Faith" is from the Greek Word "Pistis", which Again means not Only "Persuasion, and Conviction of Truth", but also "Reliance Upon" and not Only "Assurance, Belief and Faith", but also Loyalty or "Fidelity".
The way I have Heard Concepts such as Belief, Trust and Faith Explained is with the Illustration of Someone with a Wheel Barrel on a Tight Rope. You Can Believe all that you Want to that this Person can Wheel the Wheel Barrel Across the Tight Rope, but you don't Really Believe until you are Willing to Get into the Wheel Barrel.
What Ephesians 2:8-9 Actually Means, though, is that it is "Faith", a Heart Attitude, not "Works", the actual Actions, that Saves us. In my Opinion, what is at the Heart of the Gospel is the Idea that Heart Attitudes are what Count, not the Perfection of our Behavior.
Other Verses that Bring this to Light are the Ones that Focus on the Mind, rather then on Behavior, for it is Impossible to Change or even Improve on Behavior in any Lasting Way without Dealing with the Condition of the Heart and Mind…
“Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed, by the renewing of your minds, so that you may discern what is the will of God--what is good, and acceptable, and perfect.” (Romans 12:2, NRSV)
“To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.” (Romans 8:6, NRSV)
And the Salvation Message is not Complete without also Looking at Verses such as...
"because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9, NRSV)
It is not Correct to Focus on the Second Part of this Verse and not the First. Lord is a Title of Great Respect and Authority. Some Other Verses to Consider are in James...
"17) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.......20) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren?.......26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead." (James 2:17, 20, & 26, NRSV)
Read the Entire 2nd Chapter of James for the Context.
Also, Even Paul Said, “1) What then are we to say? Should we continue in sin in order that grace may abound? 2) By no means! How can we who died to sin go on living in it?” (Romans 6:1-2, NRSV)
To Further Complicate the Issue there is a Group of Christians, Known as Calvinists, who Focus on Grace, as well as Predestination (God's Part) and another Group of Christians, Known as Armenians, who Focus on Faith (Man's Part). Satyavati may not have Realized that her Arguments are Mainly Against the Calvinists, not the Armenians.
Both of these Ideas Need to be Kept in Balance, for Man can not Live a Perfectly Holy and Pure Life without God's Help (God's Grace), yet God will not Force Purity on someone who is not willing to Accept His Help (Man's Choice).
More will be Coming Later in Response to the Rest of Satyavati's Comment.
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3 comments:
I wasn't positing an argument. I was trying to get some clarification. As you can see:
Now, this would imply that you can go on and do whatever you like now and it'll all be just washed under the bridge, no problem.
Of course this isn't true. In fact, according to the Bible it's basically impossible NOT to sin, if you're human, so at this point I have to ask what happens to all those post-salvation sins? Do you just keep claiming Jesus over and over? Does he come back endlessly and wash it all up? Personally I'd think eventually he'd get pretty tired of that; salvation is not cheap and not to be used as an excuse to go on and do whatever awful things you want to do.
So it wasn't an argument at all.. it was me asking what the accepted positions are as far as the answer to my questions.
Sorry, Satyavati, if I Used the Wrong Word when I called your Comment an Argument.
And the Answer to your Next Question is the Subject of my Next Post, which I am Hoping to Submit soon.
Click on where it says "Newer Post" below and you will get to an Additional Answer to Satyavati's Question. Meanwhile, I just want to say that her Question was Partly Answered in the Above Post in that a lot of the Salvation Words have been Watered down and just as James says, "Faith, by itself, if it has no Works, is Dead." (James 2:17, NRSV)
And Here is one more Verse from James...
"18) But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith, apart from your works, and I, by my works, will show you my faith. 19) You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder. 20) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren?" (James 2:18-20, NRSV)
Basically what this Means is that the Lack of Works is Evidence that there is no Faith and therefore, a Person who Continually Decides to just "go on and do whatever you like now", and Puts Forth no Effort to Improve, does not have Faith and therefore, is either not really Saved or will not Continue to be Saved, if the Behavior Continues too Long without Improvement.
And here are some other Verses...
"Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow." (Galations 6:7, NRSV)
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven." (Matthew 7:21, NRSV)
and
"9) Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10) thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers--none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11) And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11, NRSV)
The Second of these was Spoken by Jesus, but the First and Last was Written by Paul. That is the Same Person who Wrote about Faith and Grace, such as in Ephesian 2:8-9, as Quoted in the Post. Isn't it Possible, Satyavati, that you have just Misunderstood Paul's Message.
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